Interview with Latifa Pelletier-Ahmed ~ On our relationship with native plants

This week I spent some time chatting with Latifa Pelletier-Ahmed, a human I have always admired for having an intricately autonomous perspective of the world. She was gracious enough to send a short clip for the “Powerful Women” music video, and here we discuss our relationship with our immediate biological environment, as women, humans, and animals.

LATIFA: 

I hate having to describe myself to others, to be honest I always feel quite self conscious about it. I feel like I'm in this weird experience where I'm just trying to make the most of it. I'm trying to live as a decent human being in a world where a lot of weird stuff happens. 

There are a lot of obvious problems, but I think for me the environmental issues are really critical. I'm not perfect, I don't want to say everything I do is in alignment with that. I mean look at my plastic clothes, You know, many of us are in a transitional space, unable to live 100% sustainable in our lifestyles. I still drive a car, because it's a means to an end, and I need it to do the other things that I perceive as beneficial. So, you know, I am aware that what I do doesn’t always align with my values, and that I can be better, but I simply don’t have the financial capacity to purchase the most sustainable fuel efficient vehicle. Privilege can allow access to resources for sustainable ways of being so, you know, I do the best I can. 

So how would I describe myself? As someone who strives to be ethical, and strives to be better. I try to improve my understanding of myself, to be more patient with myself and more connected to others, and not just human beings. I think there's a real spiritual element to the depth of my being, and a sense of longing for a greater connection and purpose, and that is what drives me at the inner core.

CLEA:

One of my next questions was to ask you about the driving forces that motivate you within your work, so I am glad you just touched on that. Can we backtrack, so you can tell us about the kind of work you do?

LATIFA:   

Yeah! I have so many hats! It's hard to explain all the hats that I wear. 

I will start chronologically. 

I studied herbal medicine in London, I did a postgraduate degree, and I chose this field over becoming a naturopath, because I really wanted to actually work with plants. My previous degree was in botany, and I realized that I didn't just want to work in data collection; I wanted to understand plants as individual living beings, as sentient, and explore our relationship with them. 

Plants are massively important for our very existence as animals, for the functioning of the planet, period. I've always been really interested in wild edibles, and thinking beyond the colonized mindset of what we should be eating, and how we should subsist and interact with the land. Our general mindset around food is actually a very imposed perspective, and not really in line with the biological systems that actually exist around us, and their inherent value. 

I still practice herbal medicine a little bit privately. More recently, a hat I wear involves doing workshops and teaching people how to make medicines, or harvest medicines sustainably. I do plant walks where I talk about what things are, and what you can eat. I teach people how to use plants medicinally, how you identify the plant, how to harvest it, and how the plant works. 

CLEA: 

Once COVID has kind of cleared up, will you have more educational walks again? 

LATIFA:  

I'll probably do a couple this year, but only once a month. Times will be available on my website: www.latifasherbs.com

I also do public talks, I have one coming up, but it's centered around the Botanical Gardens in Vancouver, and very specific to people in Vancouver. 

So in previous years I would take people out to do foraging, but most of my energy goes into a newer business we have now, the plant nursery called ALCLA Native Plants, which we took over in 2019. So we have moved away from harvesting, and now provide options for people to grow in their gardens in sustainable ways. 

Unfortunately the educational walks, and owning a plant nursery, compete with each other, because prime growing season is an insane amount of work. We grow all the plants, planting all the seeds, caring for them, watering them, and do all the sales and marketing, as well as client relations. That's why I don't have capacity to do foraging anymore in June, even though that's the best time to forage in Alberta, at least for like, edible greens. 

CLEA: 

Who comes to see you at the nursery and for what kind of plants? 

LATIFA: 

Well we have almost 200 plants, most of them are native to Alberta, and we have a couple Saskatchewan natives also. 

We supply for home gardens, but also work with restoration and reclamation projects, and sometimes the scale is very very large. Gardens are a big one, school yards, community spaces, municipalities. 

This ties into the reasons we want to have native plants, we have reached pretty critical levels when it comes to environmental degradation. The Parkland ecoregion has only 5% of the original vegetation remaining. Temperate grasslands are considered the most endangered ecosystem on earth by many conservation agencies. Less than 20% of our grasslands are remaining in Alberta, and that equates to the third biggest piece in North America, of the Great Plains that are left. Less than 2% of this land is actually protected. It's still being plowed under all the time, and 75% of our endangered species are in the grassland. Right now there are massive declines in all wildlife. This decline is around 90% for many species, and we are talking about the pollinators, like butterflies, that people like, but also many more life forms. It's pretty significant environmental degradation…  So why should we plant native plants? Because we're on the edge of an ecological crisis, and this is something small that we can all do.

CLEA: 

Are you driven then, by fear, or by hope?

LATIFA:  

Hope, ya I think hope! For example the City of Calgary has a mandate now by 2025 to convert 30% of boulevard spaces and empty green spaces, and move away from turfgrass, which is not a native species, and has to be mowed and maintained and watered, which is expensive. 

People often have a mindless mindset, they don’t ask themselves, “do we actually need to have turfgrass over everything?”, they just think that's what they are supposed to do. Thankfully, this mindset is changing, we are seeing more people naturalize spaces with the hope of improving biodiversity, and helping to increase insect populations and bird populations. Also, native grasses and wildflowers can be considerably more attractive. 

Non native grasses like Kentucky Blue Grass or Smooth Brown, are not currently regulated as weeds in the province, even though they are very weedy and aggressive and threaten our grasslands. They aren’t regulated because they are economically significant. That’s the reality of our invasive species legislation. 

CLEA:

I guess that is part of why the education piece is so valuable, I'm sure people are constantly surprised by this information, for most people a front lawn would be something you grew up with and wouldn’t necessarily question. 

LATIFA: 

Yeah, absolutely.

CLEA: 

A lot of people’s work really centres on humans, but your work extends far beyond that into a relationship with the environment. Do you feel like you connect with that relationship through the lens of being a woman? 

LATIFA: 

What I have noticed over time is that I am way more connected to cycles, to seasons, than I was before. There are inherent bodily realities of having a uterus, that lend to feeling connected to nature. Even my own hormone regulation helps me to be aware of these external cycles, and in the business of plants I have to be quite connected. I have to know what temperature it is at night because that will dictate how things go with the plants. I don't get to rest until the winter. My life is very much intuitive, I need to sleep at night, and I have to be awake in the day for the plants. 

These are cycles that modern society tries to pretend are not important, but just like the plants, many of our hormones and internal cycles are regulated by this. We are still really connected to the earth, but we are pulled away by a conceptual idea of what it is to be human in the modern world. Being in a woman's body reminds you of that deeply embodied connection to our environment, and that this connection is alive and real. 

CLEA: 

You were kind enough to send a clip for the “Powerful Women” music video, thank you for that! What was your initial reaction to the track? 

LATIFA:

I really liked it. It was quite moving, I listened to it like 20 times over and over again. There was something very moving, moments when I felt quite touched by it. 

CLEA: 

Are there any women who you tap into for energy or who fuel the work you do? 

LATIFA:

Two women immediately come to my mind. Robin Wall Kimmerer who wrote “Braiding Sweetgrass”, and also Lee Maracle who is a Sto:lo author. Their work really inspires me, because decolonization is an important piece of the work that I do, we work to build good relationships with folks in Treaty Seven, in Alberta. This is happening slowly, and we can support restoration processes through plants and seeds. Although these authors write about different things, their words ring in my mind because there is a sense of ethics that is not always inherent in Western thinking. There is a genuine accountability, not just to yourself and your bank account, but to other living beings, and other ways of knowing, and other people. In my work I really want to honor those principles, I really want to honor the plant itself, and that traditional knowledge creates a framework which invites you into a reciprocal relationship with landscape. All of this adds a layer of depth to what I'm already trying to do, it feeds my desire to honor the landscape, as well as the plants that sustain and provide my livelihood.

www.latifasherbs.com

www.alclanativeplants.com

Interview with Selina & Cianna Renfrow

Selina and her 15 year old daughter Cianna submitted a short video clip to contribute to the music video for “Powerful Women”, set to be released March 30th, 2021. It was extremely refreshing to connect with them for an interview that was a fascinating dive into discussions of womanhood, and the shared and differing experiences between generations. I enjoyed every second of the interview and I hope you do too! 

CLEA: 

First question, really these were kind of designed for singular humans, but you can answer however works for you...  How would you describe yourself to others?

SELINA: 

I thought it would be fun if I described Cianna and she described me so... 

Cianna is an amazingly generous person. She's a great jiu jitsu athlete, very strong, while being quite teeny. She's a great student, and she wants to work in medicine, which is freakin awesome. I could have a doctor daughter!

CIANNA:

My mom (Selina) works really hard, and achieves whatever she decides to do. Even when things aren't working for her, she finds a way. She will make big decisions to change her life that might be hard in the moment, but will be good for us in the future, and that she can be proud of having worked towards. 

CLEA: 

I love that, and that you described each other! Very cool. 

Next question, are there any projects, or things that you've been a part of lately that you are passionate about? 

SELINA:  

So, back in the summer Cianna did the Girl Force Summer Program at the Women’s Centre, and previously I did the Women Lead program there. This was a really valuable experience because the Women's Center is amazing in Calgary, it's a really great place to learn about yourself, how to work in your community, and they teach young women and girls how to lead as well. 

Cianna was asked to participate in the equivalent of a Jane's Walk in Bridgeland, and then asked to speak about associated issues. She chose to talk about Calgary Transit, an issue I have also talked about before, for Vibrant Communities Calgary, regarding the barriers to accessing transit. For us, taking transit has been super expensive, and as a single parent I had to take transit all the time with her as a kid. We would commute all over Calgary, which is a huge city.

Now as a teenager, Cianna can talk about her own experience on transit, and one of the things that she highlighted was how to keep yourself safe, which I think is also really relevant right now with what's going on in the UK. You just have to acknowledge how, as a woman, you need to be aware of your surroundings and make sure you're safe. Even before Cianna had to take transit alone, it was something I taught, to be aware of your surroundings. Don't sit next to people who make you feel uncomfortable, sit next to somebody who is traditionally more safe, or the front so that you're near the bus driver, so you can access help. 

CLEA: 

It's interesting that on one hand Cianna has these self-defence skills from jujitsu, but then also, there's such a huge mental component required to understanding how to interact with people in certain spaces. What were your feelings Cianna, about doing that talk about transit?

CIANNA: 

I have grown up considering this kind of safety, like with transit, just little things like don't take the inside seat in case you get stuck, sit on the outside. I guess it is about having to constantly stay aware of your surroundings and think twice before doing certain things. 

It’s sad maybe, that this is something we have to learn, but ignoring it and not learning about safety is not actually going to help. For example if I’m wearing certain clothing and not thinking about where I'm walking in the evening, I am also not helping the issue of my safety. 

The summer program I did was really fun. We learned about famous figures in history like women who did a lot of work and many women who have been underrepresented for their contributions. I learned a lot of interesting things, and about advocacy in my community.

CLEA:

It sounds like there's an element of being prepared to protect yourself, but then also there's an aspect of learning how to empower yourself through knowledge and enacting change, which is really nice, to not only move from a place of insecurity, but to own a problem, and speak about it. 

SELINA: 

Yeah, one of the things we learned when it comes to advocacy is that it doesn't have to be a huge commitment. It is not necessary to achieve a certain number of volunteer hours, you don’t have to be someone, or something, before you can speak from your own experience or effect change. I think what's great about the Women's Center, you learn skills that weave this into your every day. Being able to speak up, and learning to be comfortable with speaking up, even without a “platform”, or expertise, is something that I hope for Cianna to continue, where it becomes a part of who we are. 

Truthfully, I'm passionate about a lot of issues, but I don’t always feel like I can't talk about them because I don't actively work with an organization and dedicate all my time to it, but I still believe we should be able, as women, to speak from our experience, and be listened to, even without credentials.  I'm a woman and I have lived in this world, and I care, so, you know, listen to what I have to say. I'm a human being. 

CLEA:

Transitioning from actually writing the music for “Powerful Women”, which I wrote over two years ago, to creating the music video, really made me consider exactly what you are talking about. Aurally certain things didn’t show up, but then in creating the music video they did. For example, how much advocacy can I do as a full time student, and is what I am participating in enough. Then also, what can I represent in this video, what is mine to talk about, and that's hard because really you only have your own singular perspective, but then you also belong to various groups and communities. Progressively, the idea and meaning of what “woman” means is so complex and diverse, I am so aware that I can't speak for all these voices, but I am hopeful for some shared common ground. So thank you, cause I really identify with the feelings you just brought up. 

SELINA: 

Yeah, we are both students, and I work right now too, it's a lot! Still, I think even just reflecting and thinking about these things is a super important piece of this all. Like when you sent the interview questions, the question about what it means to be a woman, it was really interesting, because part of what that is for me is subconscious. So to reflect on that, and situate myself, and ask how do I fit in this world as a woman? Even that question itself makes me ask why we have to even think about it. 

But women do have to learn to live with things like inequality, or challenges other people don't have to face, different treatment if we look a certain way, or also if you don't look like how people expect, these are hard conversations to have. It’s complex to work at being strong and believing in yourself, not apologizing for who you are, but at the same time seeing that even if you do whatever you want to do, people are going to treat you differently, and you have to be prepared to respond to others and deal with the external. 

CLEA: 

Cianna do you feel like there are differences in the way that your peers talk and perceive these issues?

CIANNA:  18:42  

You know I think we're all conscious and aware, but it's not necessarily something that we talk about all the time. I think making these values a part of yourself is really important, because you can do advocacy work, or say what needs to change, but actually just shifting the small things in your daily life will also create impact.

I think a lot of people think “If I don't give 100% then why try at all”, but small little things like conversations can make a difference. I recently heard 97% of women have been sexually assaulted which is really high. It's an unfortunate reality of the world. But having conversations about it is something that we can do, and should.  

CLEA:  

One-Hundred percent. 

SELINA:

Even for her to have these groups at her school, like Black Lives Matter, which she has been a part of. Even if kids are not actively part of a group, it's still there for them, so they know that somebody is having this conversation and will care about it, and they can access that if they need to. This is huge because I think even these conversations are what's going to help bring around that change. It starts with people talking about issues.

CLEA:

Yeah, like sexual assault. When we were Cianna’s age, honestly not that long ago, it was much more taboo to talk about. 

SELINA: 

Yes, it was more of a fear based thing. We were taught not to talk to older guys at the mall, or to watch out for strangers who might be pimps. But nobody talked about the fact that like you could go on a date with a friend in high school and be assaulted, or there might be date rape drugs at a party. Those things happen in high school though, so they should be part of the conversation. 

CIANNA: 

I heard something that compared the idea of a bad date for a guy vs a bad date for a girl. The guy said, “I like going on all dates, even the bad ones cause it’s a learning experience.” but the girl was really conscious of the fact that statistically a “bad date” for a woman has a way higher chance of ending in assault, rape, or being killed. 

SELINA: 

Yeah, our version of a bad date, it's not the same version of a bad date.

CLEA: 

So, thinking about these modern issues, and considering the women who have preceded us and the experiences they have had tied to being a woman, kind of ties into the context of the lyrics of “Powerful Women”. Which, by the way, thank you for sending in your beautiful video clip to include in the music video! 

I am curious, are there women in your life who you draw on for strength. Clearly in a beautiful way as mother and daughter you both draw on each other for inspiration. Does this stem from anywhere else?

SELINA

My mom the most, Cianna’s grandmother. Truly my mom is incredible. I don't know anybody who is so strong. She doesn't seem to be afraid of anything, and she speaks her mind. Even to her own detriment. She turned 19 and decided I’m moving from Guyana to Canada, I’ll go to school, get an education, I’m going to live a better life; and then it didn't happen that way at all, but that never slowed her down. There were a lot of barriers to accessing education, and she got stuck being a nanny until she ended up meeting dad, and then they got married really quickly.  They started running a business together, and then ended up having like four kids. For me as a kid growing up, the fact that she immigrated and didn't achieve what she set out to do, she never let that affect her. She didn’t get depressed or upset that she never got what she wanted. She was a problem solver and decided, now this is my life, I will be a great mom. 

I admire that she's never afraid of speaking her mind. I'm constantly afraid of speaking my mind and I just wish sometimes that I could be as loud as her and say, you know like, “this isn't right”, or, “this is what I want”. For most of my childhood I made my mom speak for me. It took me a long time to find my voice. That is one thing I find super inspiring about my daughter Cianna.  She's resilient in her own way, and isn't afraid to do things like to speak up in class. She will get beat up in jujitsu, and then get back up and do it all over again. I would probably not keep going, but she does. 

When my mum came to Canada, she realized she would have to speak up for herself because no one else would. So when I listen to the song “Powerful Women”, I think of my mom and then also think of, you know, my grandparents, my grandmother's on my dad's side of the family. Hearing stories about my great grandmother, a teeny woman, not even five feet tall, who raised eight kids and was at the center of a wonderfully huge family. I look up to the women in my family and also I really recognize the women that are around me now.  You, and my friends, who are super inspiring. I get a lot of strength from the women I have in my life, and I get so excited, seeing their successes and seeing all they do.

CIANNA: 

For me, since my mom has so many connections with strong women, and, you know, I have so many strong women in my life like my grandma. When I did a school project about her coming to Canada, I realized how hard that must have been, and how much perseverance she has. I'm really lucky that at a young age, I have had so many different women who have shown me what is possible. They remind me that when things get tough you can push through them. I am really lucky to have this cohort of women who teach me, and tell me, that I can be strong.

CLEA: 

We are really lucky. We have been friends since Cianna was little and the whole time as a single mom you showed up Selina, mentally and emotionally. You brought Cianna to experience and learn about everything. You guys were an amazing team! Honestly you never seemed quiet to me. 

SELINA

It’s funny, that time is not a time I think about often now. Cianna is a teenager, and she's her own person. But it was super important to me, that Cianna was a part of all these fun things. I didn't like the fact that as a parent, you had to have a separate mom life. I was a young mom, maybe if I was just becoming a mom now, it would be different. But I also believe that experiencing events like a music video shoot, the folk festival, it’s culture.

CLEA

This has been such a great conversation! Thank you guys so much. Is there anything you wanted me to link to for people to check out? 

SELINA:

Please link to the Women’s Center in Calgary, it’s a place that has been part of my life for a while now and, and I'm really grateful that we have that resource, when we need it.

You can find the Women’s Center here, and both participate and donate!

https://www.womenscentrecalgary.org/